論 語 Lun Yu – Les Entretiens de Confucius

李子然問‘仲由、冉求、可謂大臣與’
子曰‘吾以子為異之問、曾由與求之問、所謂大臣者、以道事君、不可則止、今由與求也、可謂具臣矣’
曰‘然則從之者與’
子曰‘弒父與君、亦不從也’

原文 291

Ki Tzeu jen demanda à Confucius si Tzeu lou et Jen Iou avaient les talents nécessaires pour être de grands ministres. Le Maître répondit : « Je pensais que vous alliez me parler d'hommes extraordinaires, et vous me parlez de Iou et de K'iou. Un grand ministre est celui qui sert son prince selon la Voie juste, et qui se retire dès qu'il ne peut plus le faire. Iou et K'iou feraient des ministres ordinaires. » Ki Tzeu jen ajouta : « Seraient-ils obéissants ? » Confucius répondit : « Leur obéissance n'irait pas jusqu'à tremper dans un parricide ou un régicide. » Ki Tzeu jen était fils de Ki P'ing tzeu et frère puîné de Ki Houan tzeu. Il croyait que sa famille avait beaucoup gagné en attirant à son service Tzeu fou et Jen fou. Ki Houan tzeu était le chef de la famille Ki. (Voir chap. III, 1, 2 et 6.) (Tchou Hsi)

Couvreur XI.23.

A great minister. Chung-yû and Zan Ch'iû only ordinary ministers.
1. Chî Tsze-zan asked whether Chung Yû and Zan Ch'iû could be called great ministers.
2. The Master said, "I thought you would ask about some extraordinary individuals, and you only ask about Yû and Ch'iû!
3. "What is called a great minister, is one who serves his prince according to what is right, and when he finds he cannot do so, retires.
4. "Now, as to Yû and Ch'iû, they may be called ordinary ministers."
5. Tsze-zan said, "Then they will always follow their chief;– will they?"
6. The Master said, "In an act of parricide or regicide, they would not follow him."

Legge XI.23.

Chi Tzu-jan asked, 'Can Chung Yu and Jan Ch'iu be called great ministers?'
The Master said, 'I had expected a somewhat different question. It never occurred to me that you were going to ask about Yu and Ch'iu. The term "great minister" refers to those who serve their lord according to the Way and who, when this is no longer possible, relinquish office. Now men like Yu and Ch'iu can be described as ministers appointed to make up the full quota.'
'In that case, are they the kind that will always do as they are told?'
'No. They will not do so when it comes to patricide or regicide.'

Lau [11:24]